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Backlog: Weirdest result to a phone screen ever
It occurs to me that I haven't told this story yet, because it happened during the Week That I Didn't Blog (most of May 8-14). But another LJ friend or two work there, and the "we're hiring a ton of people" recently came up, hence me realizing I hadn't related this.
I had a second phone screen for a software engineering position on May 4th, which I also didn't really talk about. This was with a local company in downtown Seattle, which I'm deliberately not attaching a name to here. (I can if anyone cares.) The first phone screen was actually in early March, before I went back to Japan, and it was with an HR person who was clearly reading from a script of sorts and listening for keywords in her questions. So I passed that for the most part, though there were a few things, like she gave me an algorithms question, which I solved (my solution takes constant memory and O(2n) time; she was like "But you can do better", of course not really knowing how to explain AND not getting what I meant when I said "This is constant time and constant memory, what exactly do you WANT? O(2n) and O(n) are not enough different for you to spend 5 minutes trying to tell me I suck.")
Anyway, so, this second phone screen happens. With an actual engineer. Who has apparently been spending 90% of her time phone screening people, from what I've heard. But yeah, she was competent, and we had a good conversation. I think she might have asked some of the same questions as the first HR lady did, but some different, too, plus since it was like 2 months apart I didn't really remember.
And then she asks the same algorithms question.
And I go "Okay WTF. When I talked to ____ a few months ago, she said that..." and I explained my solution, and said "You're an engineer, do you know what I'm talking about?"
She says "Oh, no, your solution is just fine, 2n is just as good as n for the purpose of this. Wait, you talked to ____? I didn't know that. She's no longer with the company. Am I asking all the same questions?"
"You're not. Well, you might be. I don't know. But I remembered this algorithms question because it PISSED ME OFF SO MUCH."
Well, I field another few questions, and then we sit down with the web thingy where she wanted me to write code for her. She gave me a list-manipulating question to do... which I solved recursively in a pretty inefficient way. "Can you tell the me the runtime of that?" "Big. Ugly. Factorial?" The problem was that she said "Yeah. So, please make it run less stupid."
And I dunno, I couldn't think of the right way to do it, at least not in code. Very frustrating. Like I even had an idea of one approach to take but couldn't think how to code it out quickly.
So I figured I failed the interview. Shrug. I'm not REALLY qualified for what they wanted in a software engineer right now anyway. Even if I'm really good at understanding and explaining concepts.
Well, so on Tuesday May 10, I get an email saying they want to talk to me about "another" possible part-time opportunity... that yes, I didn't have what they were looking for in a software engineer. After I press hard enough, this is the message I got:
Apparently, said manager was very impressed with the way I talked about stuff and could understand concepts, and enjoyed talking to me on the phone, and was sad that I couldn't write code for her. But she thought I communicate well and was very engaging in the conversation.
But, WTF? "You're not good enough to be an engineer for us, but we want you to help us find people who are"?
It's a really bizarre way to fail a phone screen, to be sure. I made it clear, though, that I had just taken this contract that would be taking up a LOT of my time, and there was no way I'd be able to do such a job for them.
And well, it's yet another weird thing to come out of the interviewing loop....
I had a second phone screen for a software engineering position on May 4th, which I also didn't really talk about. This was with a local company in downtown Seattle, which I'm deliberately not attaching a name to here. (I can if anyone cares.) The first phone screen was actually in early March, before I went back to Japan, and it was with an HR person who was clearly reading from a script of sorts and listening for keywords in her questions. So I passed that for the most part, though there were a few things, like she gave me an algorithms question, which I solved (my solution takes constant memory and O(2n) time; she was like "But you can do better", of course not really knowing how to explain AND not getting what I meant when I said "This is constant time and constant memory, what exactly do you WANT? O(2n) and O(n) are not enough different for you to spend 5 minutes trying to tell me I suck.")
Anyway, so, this second phone screen happens. With an actual engineer. Who has apparently been spending 90% of her time phone screening people, from what I've heard. But yeah, she was competent, and we had a good conversation. I think she might have asked some of the same questions as the first HR lady did, but some different, too, plus since it was like 2 months apart I didn't really remember.
And then she asks the same algorithms question.
And I go "Okay WTF. When I talked to ____ a few months ago, she said that..." and I explained my solution, and said "You're an engineer, do you know what I'm talking about?"
She says "Oh, no, your solution is just fine, 2n is just as good as n for the purpose of this. Wait, you talked to ____? I didn't know that. She's no longer with the company. Am I asking all the same questions?"
"You're not. Well, you might be. I don't know. But I remembered this algorithms question because it PISSED ME OFF SO MUCH."
Well, I field another few questions, and then we sit down with the web thingy where she wanted me to write code for her. She gave me a list-manipulating question to do... which I solved recursively in a pretty inefficient way. "Can you tell the me the runtime of that?" "Big. Ugly. Factorial?" The problem was that she said "Yeah. So, please make it run less stupid."
And I dunno, I couldn't think of the right way to do it, at least not in code. Very frustrating. Like I even had an idea of one approach to take but couldn't think how to code it out quickly.
So I figured I failed the interview. Shrug. I'm not REALLY qualified for what they wanted in a software engineer right now anyway. Even if I'm really good at understanding and explaining concepts.
Well, so on Tuesday May 10, I get an email saying they want to talk to me about "another" possible part-time opportunity... that yes, I didn't have what they were looking for in a software engineer. After I press hard enough, this is the message I got:
I had a chat with [MANAGER]: in a nutshell, [COMPANY] is expanding faster than you can say "can't touch this". Hammer joke aside, we need help interviewing potential Software Engineers from someone who knows what they are talking about, knows how to ask challenging questions, and knows what it is we do here. That said, we are looking for an interviewer. Of course, if things work out between us, there is growth potential. We are also open to telecommuting :)
You are smart, and know your stuff, and we want to utilize that skill set! Obviously, we would work around your schedule and do what we can to make this easy on you. If you are still interested in learning more please let us know!
Apparently, said manager was very impressed with the way I talked about stuff and could understand concepts, and enjoyed talking to me on the phone, and was sad that I couldn't write code for her. But she thought I communicate well and was very engaging in the conversation.
But, WTF? "You're not good enough to be an engineer for us, but we want you to help us find people who are"?
It's a really bizarre way to fail a phone screen, to be sure. I made it clear, though, that I had just taken this contract that would be taking up a LOT of my time, and there was no way I'd be able to do such a job for them.
And well, it's yet another weird thing to come out of the interviewing loop....
no subject
I do know of cases where somebody was hired as a consultant to do technical screens, but they all involved people who the company couldn't just hire (geography, consultant happy where he was, etc). If you're trying to hire your first X and you don't know a lot about the domain, it can be wiser to hire an expert X to screen for the relevant skills than to try to do it yourself. But that's not this case.